Front

Captain America, Treasury Special, America's Bicentennial Battles, Page 64

Back

Back

Pencils to Inks

Click art to zoom then click icon in lower right corner to zoom even more.
Captain America, Treasury Special, America's Bicentennial Battles, Page 64
Chris Knowles's picture
Posted by: Chris Knowles (not verified) | March 24, 2012

Aren't these inks by John

Aren't these inks by John Romita?

Tom Kraft's picture
Posted by: Tom Kraft | March 24, 2012

Inker?

The inker was indicated by the owner of the page who is very knowledgeable in Kirby art. We discussed that the rocks look like Verpoorton's rocks, like from Eternals #1. But like everything here, its up for debate. Thoughts?

John S.'s picture
Posted by: John S. | March 25, 2012

Definitely not Romita

Doesn't look much like Verpoorten's work to me, either; but I could be wrong about that. If I were going by the credits given in the actual comic, I'd say it's Trimpe -- but Nick Caputo has shattered my faith in the accuracy of those credits. So who knows? Maybe Adkins? Uh, Nick, you out there?

The more I learn about the number of uncredited inkers on this book, the more I can understand why it had such a patchwork, inconsistent-looking ink job throughout -- and the more I wish Marvel would have allowed Mike Royer to ink it. Mike was the only inker in comics who was both fast enough and good enough to do justice to an entire 80-page book like this one. Too bad the people at Marvel never appreciated his work enough to realize that. The final product would have been a lot better if they had.

nick caputo's picture
Posted by: nick caputo | March 27, 2012

This looks like Giacoia's

This looks like Giacoia's line to me. Romita's is very distinct, and Verpoorten's adheres a little more closely to Kirby's pencils, but the inking on this page has that sharp Giacoia line. BTW, I did go through the entire book a few weeks ago and did my best to identify each inker. I added those credits to the GCD, so you can go there and look a what I came up with (and then argue that I'm wrong!).

Krackles's picture
Posted by: Krackles | March 27, 2012

Frankly… No

A bit too soft on the brushwork, I don't believe it's Giacoia's work at all.

Still see Herb Trimpe or, possibly, Dan Green as better candidates.

Anonymous's picture
Posted by: Anonymous (not verified) | March 27, 2012

Since I'm discussing Kirby

Since I'm discussing Kirby and alterations on my latest Blog, I thought you folks might be slightly interested...

http://nick-caputo.blogspot.com/2012/03/kirby-corrections.html

John S.'s picture
Posted by: John S. | March 29, 2012

Giacoia?

Nick, thanks for your response to my comment. Sorry I didn't reply to you sooner. I haven't had a chance to look at your breakdown of the inkers yet, but I'll check it out when I get a few minutes. Normally I agree with most of your assessments, but I've gotta side with Krackles on this one. It really doesn't look much like Giacoia's inks to me. The lines are too narrow and almost shaky in spots -- a far cry from Giacoia's bold, confident strokes. This page appears (to me at least) to have been done primarily with pen, as opposed to the kind of slick brushwork we usually got from Giacoia. So while I greatly respect your opinions on these matters, I don't think I'd go with Feerless Frankie on this one. In fact, running down the list of all possible inkers discussed so far (Trimpe, Romita, Adkins, Verpoorten, Green), I'm not convinced that this page was embellished by any of them -- because it doesn't really seem to match any of their styles closely enough. Who else was around in those days? Tartaglione, Esposito, Roussos -- even Sal Buscema. Roussos seems closest, but it lacks his style of black-spotting. Aaarrgh!! To tell you the truth, I'm at a total loss here...so for now I'm gonna leave it to others to hash it out!

nick caputo's picture
Posted by: nick caputo | March 30, 2012

John, I wouldn't expect

John,

I wouldn't expect everyone to be in agreement with me all the time (I'd worry if that did happen!) and I've certainly made errors in the past, but I'm still sticking with Giacoia as the possible suspect here. I don't see the styles of any of the names you mentioned, i.e.Esposito, Tartaglione, Roussos or Sal B, Granted, there is not much to go on in these panels, The inker seems to be pretty much following Kirby's lines, but Giacoia did that on some of Kirby's work in this period, on Cap and some covers. Still, I have an open mind and will listen if another name comes up that makes me think twice.. .

Krackles's picture
Posted by: Krackles | March 25, 2012

I fancy Dan but…

… Trimpe, I say!

Frank Fosco's picture
Posted by: Frank Fosco | March 25, 2012

Whole lotta hands on inking chores.

It's not Trimpe or Verpoorten. I have more of a leaning with whom Chris thinks it is, Romita--but I don't think that's correct. Wasn't there a mention that Dan Green did some inks in this book also?--I think it could be him?

Can we get a list of inkers credited and uncredited for this book?

Frank Fosco's picture
Posted by: Frank Fosco | March 25, 2012

Wait a minute...

...wait a minute--this could be Bob Smith. I saw in the TPB he is credited as one of the inkers for the Treasury edition. I know there are some inkers not credited for the Treasury. Here are the ones credited in the TPB collecting the Treasury and Captain America, 201 through 205 from 2005.

Herb Trimpe
John Romita
Bob Smith
Frank Giacoia
John Verpoorten

Frank Fosco's picture
Posted by: Frank Fosco | March 25, 2012

Funny--

We know Barry Smith inked the opening pages in the Treasury, but he's not credited on the credits page of this TPB edition from 2005. Go figure.

John S.'s picture
Posted by: John S. | March 25, 2012

There's a simple explanation for that.

The credits on the opening page of the Treasury list "B. Smith" as one of the inkers. It's obvious the incompetent, know-nothing fools currently working at Marvel didn't even realize "B. Smith" was Barry Smith!!! They must've thought it was Bob Smith!!!!!!!! I'm not 100 percent certain, but I kinda doubt that Bob Smith was even working in comics when this book was made!! Honestly, anyone who can't tell the difference between the inking styles of Barry Smith and Bob Smith...!!!! And people wonder why I'm so critical of the bungling, unlettered morons working in today's comics industry--!!! Their product is complete garbage and they get the sales to prove it...and still can't understand why??!!!!

But I digress. Flipping through the book again, I can definitely see some pages that look like they were inked by Dan Green. I'm not sure if this is one of them, though. The linework on this page looks a little too brittle to be Green's handiwork. If I didn't know better, I'd almost guess that this page was inked by Kirby himself. So this is really a tough one, and I've gotta admit I'm pretty much stumped by it!

Frank Fosco's picture
Posted by: Frank Fosco | March 25, 2012

Nevermind.

Duh--what's the matter with me? Of course it's Barry Smith. Sheesh!

Do we know if Dan Green did any inking in the Treasury edition? I read somewhere he started inking in the mid 70s, and 1976 is as 'bout as good as mid 70s you can get.

John S.'s picture
Posted by: John S. | March 25, 2012

I didn't mean you, Frank.

I don't have the trade paperback, but I'm assuming you didn't write the credits in question! And even if you did, I'd give you enough credit that I would know it was a totally unintended slip-up. Which is more than I could say for most of the people working at Marvel. You clearly know your stuff; they clearly don't. The fact that you even mentioned Dan Green as a possible inker on Bicentennial Battles proves it. Green inked Captain America #213 and the style is very similar indeed to a number of pages in the Treasury. Personally, I never would've even thought of him as one of the inkers on that book, but since you mentioned it, I can easily see how it might be so. I also agree with your point that we need to get a more comprehensive list of the inkers who actually worked on the Treasury before we could make definitive choices as to who inked some of the pages.

Frank Fosco's picture
Posted by: Frank Fosco | March 25, 2012

re: I didn't mean you, Frank.

Oh--no worries Johnny S.--I know you didn't.

patrick ford's picture
Posted by: patrick ford | March 29, 2012

Crackle

One thing I notice is the inker indicates the crackle effects in a blotchy way more similar to Kirby's pencils than the real clean looking circles used by Sinnott, and Royer.
Verpoorten seems to use cleaner circle shapes. I really like Verpoorten on Kirby, and loved what he did with John Buscema, I do notice on some of his pages he is a little loose when inking feathered speed or force lines, the spacing isn't as consistent as some inkers, and he might have lines touching, or farther apart in the same aura. I don't see Verpoorten here.

Frank Fosco's picture
Posted by: Frank Fosco | March 30, 2012

The debate continues

I think I'm gonna have to go along with Nick on this one. When comparing the rock formations from 2001 treasury edition with this Cap treasury that were done close to the same time it's looking like Giacioa to me also.

Krackles's picture
Posted by: Krackles | March 30, 2012

The face of the Inker

Frank, I have to disagree with you and Nick.

Like John, I can't really tell who did ink this page but I'm strongly convinced that's not Frank Giacoia.

Frank Fosco's picture
Posted by: Frank Fosco | March 30, 2012

Well...

...the clothes wrinkles are done in the Giacoia technique with that one brush stroke approach. The little swipes and dashes on the rocks, reminiscent of Giacoia.
I'm saying it's looking like Giacoia more then anyone we've come up with only because of the comparisons I have made with 2001 treasury edition that was done close to the same time. I see the signs, but I'll say I'm not a 100% positive. I can say for sure and we seem to agree on this, it's not Verpooten who is credited and not Trimpe. Not as sure on Giacoia.

Krackles's picture
Posted by: Krackles | April 2, 2012

Let it be…

… Fearless Frank.
Not being sure of the inker identity, I let it beat me!

Tom Kraft's picture
Posted by: Tom Kraft | April 15, 2012

Comparison added

Added Pencils to Inks tab. May help determine the inker by looking at the original pencil copy...

John S.'s picture
Posted by: John S. | April 15, 2012

Nope.

Still can't figure out who inked this.

Frank Fosco's picture
Posted by: Frank Fosco | April 15, 2012

Shrug?

Looking at the rock formations and the Kirby krackle it looks like Giacoia--but--this could be a case of 2 inkiers because some of the figure work looks like another hand. I'm wondering if Frank G. started inking this by doing the backgrounds and then passed it on for another inkier to finish? Who knows for sure?--maybe we're coming full circle back to Jumbo John Verpoorten.

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
X