Publisher:
DC Comics
Cover Date:
September, 1985
Art Type:
Panel
Story:
“Seeds of Doom!”
Character(s):
Darkseid, Martian Manhunter
History:
Published
Size:
13 x 19.9 in. (32.9 x 50.7 cm)
Credits:
Penciler:
Jack Kirby
Inker:
Greg Theakston
Second Inker:
Bill Wray
Letterer:
David Cody Weiss
Scans of this art courtesy of Steve Wyatt
… Where are they when you need one?
In a previous comment, I was saying that Jack's later work was only good for Colletta to ink but I was wrong.
A good finisher like Giacoia would have been a better choice.
At this stage of the King's career, it was probably the right moment for an inker to "help" Jack.
Jack didn't need help earlier but he certainly deserved a good helping one with Super Powers!
Greg was a big Simon/Kirby guy and he made the attempt to give it that look. He did a lot of straightening things out and fixing. There were areas where it worked--and others where it didn't work quite so well.
Sinnott might have been a better choice but by this point he was sticking pretty faithfully to Kirby's work when he inked it. Not sure who could have been brought in. Royer was more faithful, to be sure, but at this stage Jack's stuff was pretty skewed and wonky and he didn't need faithful--he needed help.
… even a doomed one.
I have no doubt that Mr Theakston was acting in good faith, honestly trying to help but he mostly made things worse.
Between Kirby's flaws and Theakston's fixes, I'll take Kirby's work as is without blinking.
isnt that inset panel and odd thing for Kirby to use..? well.. Later Kirby I should say... I could EASILY see him using it in early Simon & Kirby work.
During the first Super Powers series Kirby was still producing some great pages, by the time of the second SP series the art is really getting labored looking, shaky, and Kirby is often either exhausted, or otherwise not engaged.
That being said I've never seen a page as it was inked that looks better than the pencils.
I think the major reason for this is, as wobbly as some of the drawing got, it still had an internal logic to itself.
Trying to fix things totally didn't work, because it threw off the balance of the drawing. It's like if you had an old house which was out of square, and you went to Home Depot and brought home a new door. That door is NOT going to fit the opening, and the style of it won't look right either.
Personally I think if Kirby had the opportunity to take his time on something he was very interested in doing he could still have produced very good work, even with his bad drawing hand.
Then again I have no problem with stuff like this: http://a.imageshack.us/img338/8308/urabe.jpg
That's Tezuka. I'm really confident if DC had signed Tezuka to draw Superman, DC fans would have had a fit.
On the other hand for US mainstream commercial tastes Kirby could have been asked to supply simple layouts which could have been finished by penciler/inkers as was common at that time.
There are 36 pages of Kirby's penciled Super Powers pages here: http://comics.ha.com/common/search_results.php?Nty=1&Ntk=SI_Titles&Ne=10...
If a person is registered and logged in the pages can be seen in the same way the Zoom feature works at What if.
While it's easy to imagine a fan of The Flash or Batman cringing at Kirby's depiction of those heroes I think it's interesting how strong the pages are design wise, and the things Kirby seems interested in are still well drawn even if it's with a bad hand. http://comics.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=110084&lotNo=14563#Photo http://comics.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=7023&lotNo=93164#Photo
Is Kirby at his peak here? Obviously not, but he's still a great designer, still producing clean detailed pencils, and I can live with the dashed off cartoonized Robin, Flash, and Batman.
would be nice to see DC put together the pencilled pages for a "graphite edition" a la cap'n vic and silver star...dontcha think?
i grew up with the super powers toys, and although i wuz never a huge DC fan, i remember these issues quite well. The image of Martian Manhunter punching in the half-splash I always thought wuz great, and SP wuz my first INTRO to darkseid and many of the other DC and 4th world chars.
(imo) its interesting that they decided to use steppenwolf and mantis in this series. I still have the darkseid toy in my garage. His (red) eyes lit up thru a whole in the top of his dome (head, 'natch) and his arms would move up and down if you squeezed his legs (together). i think steppenwold wuz special order (like had to get yer mama to cut out 5 proofs of purchases + $5 for s/h).
ok, but now, i see the inks as being weak, relative to royer, but hard for me to disentangle that from my nostalgia.
and i think theakston inks nicely encapsulate kirby's efforts during this final period of his published legacy.
Super Inkers…
… Where are they when you need one?
In a previous comment, I was saying that Jack's later work was only good for Colletta to ink but I was wrong.
A good finisher like Giacoia would have been a better choice.
At this stage of the King's career, it was probably the right moment for an inker to "help" Jack.
Jack didn't need help earlier but he certainly deserved a good helping one with Super Powers!
I'm sure Theakston was under the impression he WAS helping--
Greg was a big Simon/Kirby guy and he made the attempt to give it that look. He did a lot of straightening things out and fixing. There were areas where it worked--and others where it didn't work quite so well.
Sinnott might have been a better choice but by this point he was sticking pretty faithfully to Kirby's work when he inked it. Not sure who could have been brought in. Royer was more faithful, to be sure, but at this stage Jack's stuff was pretty skewed and wonky and he didn't need faithful--he needed help.
Give me a Kingdom…
… even a doomed one.
I have no doubt that Mr Theakston was acting in good faith, honestly trying to help but he mostly made things worse.
Between Kirby's flaws and Theakston's fixes, I'll take Kirby's work as is without blinking.
isnt that inset panel
isnt that inset panel and odd thing for Kirby to use..? well.. Later Kirby I should say... I could EASILY see him using it in early Simon & Kirby work.
Cartoony Looking Stuff
During the first Super Powers series Kirby was still producing some great pages, by the time of the second SP series the art is really getting labored looking, shaky, and Kirby is often either exhausted, or otherwise not engaged.
That being said I've never seen a page as it was inked that looks better than the pencils.
I think the major reason for this is, as wobbly as some of the drawing got, it still had an internal logic to itself.
Trying to fix things totally didn't work, because it threw off the balance of the drawing. It's like if you had an old house which was out of square, and you went to Home Depot and brought home a new door. That door is NOT going to fit the opening, and the style of it won't look right either.
Personally I think if Kirby had the opportunity to take his time on something he was very interested in doing he could still have produced very good work, even with his bad drawing hand.
Then again I have no problem with stuff like this:
http://a.imageshack.us/img338/8308/urabe.jpg
That's Tezuka. I'm really confident if DC had signed Tezuka to draw Superman, DC fans would have had a fit.
On the other hand for US mainstream commercial tastes Kirby could have been asked to supply simple layouts which could have been finished by penciler/inkers as was common at that time.
The Fix is on.
Maybe DC should have hired Frank Miller to ink Super Powers. Or maybe DC should have hired Theakston to "fix" Miller's Batman?
http://larryfire.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/batmangritty.jpg
Charm of their own
There are 36 pages of Kirby's penciled Super Powers pages here:
http://comics.ha.com/common/search_results.php?Nty=1&Ntk=SI_Titles&Ne=10...
If a person is registered and logged in the pages can be seen in the same way the Zoom feature works at What if.
While it's easy to imagine a fan of The Flash or Batman cringing at Kirby's depiction of those heroes I think it's interesting how strong the pages are design wise, and the things Kirby seems interested in are still well drawn even if it's with a bad hand.
http://comics.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=110084&lotNo=14563#Photo
http://comics.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=7023&lotNo=93164#Photo
Is Kirby at his peak here? Obviously not, but he's still a great designer, still producing clean detailed pencils, and I can live with the dashed off cartoonized Robin, Flash, and Batman.
More Beautiful Pages
Once again, you have to be logged in at Heritage to see these.
'I'd call any of these beautiful.
'http://comics.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=825&lotNo=43286#Photo
Looks almost like a page from the early '60s X-Men issue where they meet Kazar.
http://comics.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=12101&lotNo=32004#Photo
Notice the detail in panel one.
Darkseid.
http://comics.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=7023&lotNo=93165#Photo
How about this?
http://comics.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=7033&lotNo=92134#Photo
Oh. sorry that's Frank Miller. What's up with Batman's right arm and chest? Why didn't the inker fix that?
hm...graphite edition?
would be nice to see DC put together the pencilled pages for a "graphite edition" a la cap'n vic and silver star...dontcha think?
i grew up with the super powers toys, and although i wuz never a huge DC fan, i remember these issues quite well. The image of Martian Manhunter punching in the half-splash I always thought wuz great, and SP wuz my first INTRO to darkseid and many of the other DC and 4th world chars.
(imo) its interesting that they decided to use steppenwolf and mantis in this series. I still have the darkseid toy in my garage. His (red) eyes lit up thru a whole in the top of his dome (head, 'natch) and his arms would move up and down if you squeezed his legs (together). i think steppenwold wuz special order (like had to get yer mama to cut out 5 proofs of purchases + $5 for s/h).
ok, but now, i see the inks as being weak, relative to royer, but hard for me to disentangle that from my nostalgia.
and i think theakston inks nicely encapsulate kirby's efforts during this final period of his published legacy.
memory!
it wuz 5 proofs of purchase!!!
http://www.kennersuperpowers.com/spfigures/steppenwolf.html
too bad i don't remember anything truly important!
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